Curse

Brother Redmund · Oct 26, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

I note that armor swapping in pvp games has been disabled, according to the new update. I have read in various areas some high end players use this technique often, to boost attributes for certain skills or negate the effect of death penalty during guild battles.

What are peoples thoughts on the effect this will have in the pvp environment?

Dragannia · Oct 26, 2006, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Aye.

It's a stupid addition. They enabled multiple armour sets to be crafted hence balancing PvE characters and PvP...then they go ahead and knock off the entire feature itself. Seems a bit retarded.

scamPOR · Oct 26, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

I think it makes things somewhat easier... Sure armor swapping was good but with all the new mods they want to add, they don't want everyone min/maxing and making that half the game.

kitiara · Oct 26, 2006, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

Aye.

It's a stupid addition. They enabled multiple armour sets to be crafted hence balancing PvE characters and PvP...then they go ahead and knock off the entire feature itself. Seems a bit retarded.

/agree complete

nightrunner · Oct 26, 2006, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Even though I'm pissed that I wasted all that money on expensive swaps, I have to agree that it's a good change. Yay.

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 26, 2006, 07:47 AM // 07:47

The theory is that the game is not balanced around armor-swapping, and allowing armor swapping with all the additional runes would throw things further out of balance.

In practice, I think it's a smaller change than a lot of people are making it out to be. You won't be able to swap out minors or -condition gear in skirmish situations, but that affects both sides of a skirmish pretty equally. The only real change is that 321spike gets a bit stronger, and while you won't find many people who hate 321spike more than me, even I don't mind this change too much.

phasola · Oct 26, 2006, 07:50 AM // 07:50

This is crap

Why remove armor swapping since they just added it to PvP chars ?
Also my 15k sheppards cost a whole lot

JR · Oct 26, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Armor swapping was never intended to be a part of the PvP game, thus PvP characters only ever having one set.

Dragannia · Oct 26, 2006, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

The theory is that the game is not balanced around armor-swapping, and allowing armor swapping with all the additional runes would throw things further out of balance.

In practice, I think it's a smaller change than a lot of people are making it out to be. You won't be able to swap out minors or -condition gear in skirmish situations, but that affects both sides of a skirmish pretty equally. The only real change is that 321spike gets a bit stronger, and while you won't find many people who hate 321spike more than me, even I don't mind this change too much.

I don't agree here. Armour swapping is about tactics. Due to the nature of GvG, where it's all about strategy, armour swapping adds in that little bit of tactical-adaptation. Essentially, builds are much more important now. As you said, 321 spike is more powerful, and a DPed team is at a bigger disadvantage compared to before, which is limiting that element of skill.

Yanman.be · Oct 26, 2006, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Does this still work?

Make pvp char with normal sup runes.
Buy minor runes

If dp'ed, or you need more health, apply while in a pvp arena? I'm not at home atm, so I can't test it.

Havelock · Oct 26, 2006, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Does this still work?

Make pvp char with normal sup runes.
Buy minor runes

If dp'ed, or you need more health, apply while in a pvp arena? I'm not at home atm, so I can't test it.

The update says somewhere that equipment crafted via the new interface can't be modded and I assume that includes armor/runes but haven't tested yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guildwars.com

* Items created with the PvP Equipment panel cannot be upgraded or salvaged.

tomcruisejr · Oct 26, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Armor swapping was a feature that allows a player to adapt to many sitiuations. facing spikes? wear an HP armor, degen? swap to conditions armor, got dp? unload your rune. etc? whatever. and it is not "imbalanced" imo coz players are not prohibited from a making characters with the ability to weapon swap and being balanced is being able to adapt to many situations. armor swapping is a feature of a balanced play.

those who were crying bout pve having the ability to armor swap, the fag hole cry babies who just whine a lot and not do anything but whine are to blame. you lazy bastards.

its better that A.NET only limit PVP to PVP only characters or better please delete PvE. or yea, make a single generic pvp armor for each classes.

Drewfense · Oct 26, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

I armor switch a lot...but atleast this gives me another reason to yell at warriors who wear a sup weapon rune.

Squidget is right though, the biggest group to boost from this is caster spike (and conversly the biggest group hurt by this update is rangers...). I think the +10 runes were added with spike teams in mind, but it seems like a lot of band aids to cover a small problem...

On the bright side, /stuck means I can finally get rid of my 105 hp lions arch armor and double vamp weapon.

clonmac · Oct 26, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

I don't mind the change at all and I think a lot of people are making it out to be a bigger deal that it really is.

People don't lose games because of the armor they are wearing. They lose games because they made tactical errors during the match. Both teams can decide on which armor to bring into the match just like they decide what skills to bring. Once they make that decision they need to deal with that for the duration of the match. It only makes sense. You want tactics? Then concentrate on winning the battle with what you brought. That is tactics.

Zuranthium · Oct 26, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

I absolutely love this change.

Not only because swapping armor is annoying but because it's ENTIRELY unrealistic. How can you suddenly put a new pair of pants on mid-battle? Retarded.

LOVE A-net. There are still lots of skills that need fixed but they are doing an excellent job balancing the game.

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 26, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

I don't agree here. Armour swapping is about tactics. Due to the nature of GvG, where it's all about strategy, armour swapping adds in that little bit of tactical-adaptation. Essentially, builds are much more important now. As you said, 321 spike is more powerful, and a DPed team is at a bigger disadvantage compared to before, which is limiting that element of skill.

Armor choice is also a tactical adaptation, and I don't see how it limits skill. You take a single set of armor into a given match just like you take a single set of skills, and the armor you wear determines a lot of your potential and tactics. If you can switch to any armor in any situation, there isn't really very much tactical choice to it at all. It's mechanical - switch into your minor rune if DPed, health armor against spike, ect.

And again, I don't think this seriously affects anything but 321spike, and gank characters to a degree. DP doesn't become relevant in most matches until one team is already at a major disadvantage, unless you're letting them spike out the same target over and over again. In practice, teams breaking at the flagstand is more limited by res sigs than DP, and DP tends to get accumulated in the phase after that where the losing team runs around and tries to force the enemy into a mistake.

Jessyi · Oct 26, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

Aye.

It's a stupid addition. They enabled multiple armour sets to be crafted hence balancing PvE characters and PvP...then they go ahead and knock off the entire feature itself. Seems a bit retarded.

Mmmm yeah, I'm just going to have to go ahead and completely agree with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

The theory is that the game is not balanced around armor-swapping, and allowing armor swapping with all the additional runes would throw things further out of balance.

In practice, I think it's a smaller change than a lot of people are making it out to be. You won't be able to swap out minors or -condition gear in skirmish situations, but that affects both sides of a skirmish pretty equally. The only real change is that 321spike gets a bit stronger, and while you won't find many people who hate 321spike more than me, even I don't mind this change too much.

You know Kit and I are going to corner you in vent right? KILL THE TRAITOR!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Armor swapping was never intended to be a part of the PvP game, thus PvP characters only ever having one set.

This is just another verse in ANet's long, sad ballad of game changes. I've pitched this arguement before and it goes something like this:
Is armor swapping a legitemate element of gameplay or is it a fundamentally broken element that's needed a change for the past year and a half? TRICK QUESTION. If armor swapping is legit, then it ought to have stayed the same. If it was broken it should have been remedied well over a year ago. And yes, while I realize that this IS ANet's product and they reserve the right to do what they want with it, and everyone else DOES have to deal with the same changes that I do, it feels like they do a great disservice to the community by making these changes so late into the established game. When you say that "armor swapping was never intended to be a part of the PvP game" that implies to me that this isn't a new revelation. It's not like someone woke up a week ago and said "HOLY CRAP, ARMOR SWAPPING IS BROKEN", in which case I can't help but feel like somebody really dropped the ball on this.

I can't help but QQ a little bit, though we'll all perservere. It's just damn irritating y'know?

-Jessyi

clonmac · Oct 26, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

If armor swapping is legit, then it ought to have stayed the same. If it was broken it should have been remedied well over a year ago.

.....

It's not like someone woke up a week ago and said "HOLY CRAP, ARMOR SWAPPING IS BROKEN", in which case I can't help but feel like somebody really dropped the ball on this.

I can't help but QQ a little bit, though we'll all perservere. It's just damn irritating y'know?

Or the third possibility may have been that they just decided to hold off on making the changes until they had a way of implementing the solution correctly. Developers, believe it or not, usually have a list of things that they planned on changing a year down the road. They most likely planned on removing armor-swapping from the game a while ago, but decided to not make the change until they could implement the new PvP equipment crafting interface.

So I don't think anyone really dropped the ball. Atleast that is what I like to believe.

Drewfense · Oct 26, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

I can't help but QQ a little bit, though we'll all perservere. It's just damn irritating y'know?

-Jessyi

Sometimes the best way to fight back is a show of protest...I have already decided to play out the winter gvg season naked...

JR · Oct 26, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

This is just another verse in ANet's long, sad ballad of game changes. I've pitched this arguement before and it goes something like this:
Is armor swapping a legitemate element of gameplay or is it a fundamentally broken element that's needed a change for the past year and a half? TRICK QUESTION. If armor swapping is legit, then it ought to have stayed the same. If it was broken it should have been remedied well over a year ago. And yes, while I realize that this IS ANet's product and they reserve the right to do what they want with it, and everyone else DOES have to deal with the same changes that I do, it feels like they do a great disservice to the community by making these changes so late into the established game. When you say that "armor swapping was never intended to be a part of the PvP game" that implies to me that this isn't a new revelation. It's not like someone woke up a week ago and said "HOLY CRAP, ARMOR SWAPPING IS BROKEN", in which case I can't help but feel like somebody really dropped the ball on this.

PvP characters have never had the ability to armor swap, and PvE characters have only relatively recently become so popular in PvP due to the imbalances fixed in the most recent update.

My guess would be that Anet wanted to completely balance PvE and PvP characters - including disabling armor swaps - in one go, instead of making one small change, and then more later.